Comments on: A million Fedora users, but how many file bugs? http://cyberelk.net/tim/2007/01/12/a-million-fedora-users-but-how-many-file-bugs/ Thu, 09 Feb 2012 09:16:03 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.1 By: tim http://cyberelk.net/tim/2007/01/12/a-million-fedora-users-but-how-many-file-bugs/comment-page-1/#comment-6657 tim Mon, 22 Mar 2010 10:56:40 +0000 http://cyberelk.net/tim/?p=22#comment-6657 Usually it is the case that the developers do care about fixing the bugs (that's why they do what they do), but sometimes their share of packages for which they are responsible means they are not able to attend to all bugs in a timely fashion. It doesn't mean they won't fix the bug, it just means there are other bugs with higher priority. Usually it is the case that the developers do care about fixing the bugs (that’s why they do what they do), but sometimes their share of packages for which they are responsible means they are not able to attend to all bugs in a timely fashion.

It doesn’t mean they won’t fix the bug, it just means there are other bugs with higher priority.

]]> By: bobpoljakov http://cyberelk.net/tim/2007/01/12/a-million-fedora-users-but-how-many-file-bugs/comment-page-1/#comment-6632 bobpoljakov Sat, 20 Mar 2010 15:46:56 +0000 http://cyberelk.net/tim/?p=22#comment-6632 another late comment... I agree that filing bugs is a useful way to contribute, that's why I'm so disappointed because I've got no responses for six months so my question is, who cares with those filed bugs, why should users file those bugs, if no one responses, and if the developers have no time for help and fix, why they say they need more users to file bugs. another late comment…
I agree that filing bugs is a useful way to contribute, that’s why I’m so disappointed because I’ve got no responses for six months
so my question is, who cares with those filed bugs, why should users file those bugs, if no one responses, and if the developers have no time for help and fix, why they say they need more users to file bugs.

]]> By: Jay http://cyberelk.net/tim/2007/01/12/a-million-fedora-users-but-how-many-file-bugs/comment-page-1/#comment-6359 Jay Fri, 12 Feb 2010 15:23:15 +0000 http://cyberelk.net/tim/?p=22#comment-6359 (A 'late' comment) This is for Fedora 12 that I recently installed, alongside Ubuntu 9.04 and Windows XP: The ABRT (Automatic Bug Reporting Tool, "abrt-gui") has made picking up and reporting Bugs to Fedora Bugzilla much easier. It auto-generates a traceback & checks for duplicates of the problem, if any. However this often requires download of many additional 'debug' packages that are often of MB size download, a possible dissuader to reporting a Bug. Nonetheless I have so far reported 3 Bugs in Fedora 12 and a few before (without ABRT) in Fedora 10 and 11. This is a useful way for users who are non-technical/not programmers to contribute. (A ‘late’ comment)

This is for Fedora 12 that I recently installed, alongside Ubuntu 9.04 and Windows XP:

The ABRT (Automatic Bug Reporting Tool, “abrt-gui”) has made picking up and reporting Bugs to Fedora Bugzilla much easier. It auto-generates a traceback & checks for duplicates of the problem, if any. However this often requires download of many additional ‘debug’ packages that are often of MB size download, a possible dissuader to reporting a Bug.

Nonetheless I have so far reported 3 Bugs in Fedora 12 and a few before (without ABRT) in Fedora 10 and 11. This is a useful way for users who are non-technical/not programmers to contribute.

]]> By: Kurt Driver http://cyberelk.net/tim/2007/01/12/a-million-fedora-users-but-how-many-file-bugs/comment-page-1/#comment-3345 Kurt Driver Fri, 07 Nov 2008 17:24:23 +0000 http://cyberelk.net/tim/?p=22#comment-3345 Thank you. Thank you.

]]> By: tim http://cyberelk.net/tim/2007/01/12/a-million-fedora-users-but-how-many-file-bugs/comment-page-1/#comment-3343 tim Fri, 07 Nov 2008 16:09:30 +0000 http://cyberelk.net/tim/?p=22#comment-3343 Kurt, starting from https://bugzilla.redhat.com/enter_bug.cgi do this: 1. Click "Fedora", as you are reporting a bug in a Fedora product</li> 2. In the list of Fedora products, click "Fedora", ie. the one that says it is for bugs "related to the components of the Fedora distribution". Then fill out the form. If you aren't sure which parts need to be filled in, click on the "bug writing guidelines" link, or if you need more assistance than that click on the "Guided bug entry page" link. Kurt, starting from https://bugzilla.redhat.com/enter_bug.cgi do this:

1. Click “Fedora”, as you are reporting a bug in a Fedora product

2. In the list of Fedora products, click “Fedora”, ie. the one that says it is for bugs “related to the components of the Fedora distribution”.

Then fill out the form. If you aren’t sure which parts need to be filled in, click on the “bug writing guidelines” link, or if you need more assistance than that click on the “Guided bug entry page” link.

]]> By: Kurt Driver http://cyberelk.net/tim/2007/01/12/a-million-fedora-users-but-how-many-file-bugs/comment-page-1/#comment-3342 Kurt Driver Fri, 07 Nov 2008 15:08:05 +0000 http://cyberelk.net/tim/?p=22#comment-3342 Tim, how are we supposed to report bugs? I 've been to https://bugzilla.redhat.com/enter_bug.cgi It asks for a tag and a bug. What is a tag? I know a bug when I see one, but what do I call it on that page? And what in the world is eclipse-bugzilla? An 85 meg download which I thought was supposed to report bugs. No man page, nothing on the net, (it's an environment) and I'm getting frustrated. Yum asks me to report a bug and I have been trying to figure out how. I seem unable to figure it out and I'm not new to linux I have been windows free since 99 (Red Hat 5.1). And, yet you ask, why we don't report bugs. Thanks for you time, Kurt Tim, how are we supposed to report bugs? I ‘ve been to
https://bugzilla.redhat.com/enter_bug.cgi
It asks for a tag and a bug. What is a tag? I know a bug when I see one, but what do I call it on that page? And what in the world is eclipse-bugzilla? An 85 meg download which I thought was supposed to report bugs. No man page, nothing on the net, (it’s an environment) and I’m getting frustrated. Yum asks me to report a bug and I have been trying to figure out how. I seem unable to figure it out and I’m not new to linux I have been windows free since 99 (Red Hat 5.1). And, yet you ask, why we don’t report bugs. Thanks for you time, Kurt

]]> By: Matt McCutchen http://cyberelk.net/tim/2007/01/12/a-million-fedora-users-but-how-many-file-bugs/comment-page-1/#comment-15 Matt McCutchen Sun, 21 Jan 2007 19:26:20 +0000 http://cyberelk.net/tim/?p=22#comment-15 In reply to Tim W: > * low reward-to-effort ratio in many cases That's inevitably true of contributing to free software. > * need to make a login in bugzilla, which means yet another password to remember I don't mind that; I have Firefox remember all my passwords. > * it takes quite a lot of time to gather info and try out things in order to submit a decent bug report > * risk being told to RTFM or chastised for poor bug report I think this is the real problem. I have a question for projects that set the bug reporting bar high (such as Eclipse, whose Bugzilla recently started funneling reporters through two additional screens of nagging): Suppose I discover something that looks like a bug, but I am only willing to spend 5 minutes on it, not the 15-30 minutes it would take to properly triage the bug myself. What would they like me to do in those 5 minutes? Nothing? I think there is a lot of room for improvement in the bug workflow for free software projects. For example, there's a point below which a bug report is not complete enough to be investigated by developers. However, it would still help to post the report somewhere so that future users can refer to it and the original reporter can be contacted if more information comes to light about the bug. Automated dup detection, or anything else that makes it easier for users to triage the bugs they find, would be another big help. In reply to Tim W:

> * low reward-to-effort ratio in many cases
That’s inevitably true of contributing to free software.

> * need to make a login in bugzilla, which means yet another password to remember
I don’t mind that; I have Firefox remember all my passwords.

> * it takes quite a lot of time to gather info and try out things in order to submit a decent bug report
> * risk being told to RTFM or chastised for poor bug report
I think this is the real problem. I have a question for projects that set the bug reporting bar high (such as Eclipse, whose Bugzilla recently started funneling reporters through two additional screens of nagging): Suppose I discover something that looks like a bug, but I am only willing to spend 5 minutes on it, not the 15-30 minutes it would take to properly triage the bug myself. What would they like me to do in those 5 minutes? Nothing?

I think there is a lot of room for improvement in the bug workflow for free software projects. For example, there’s a point below which a bug report is not complete enough to be investigated by developers. However, it would still help to post the report somewhere so that future users can refer to it and the original reporter can be contacted if more information comes to light about the bug. Automated dup detection, or anything else that makes it easier for users to triage the bugs they find, would be another big help.

]]> By: tim http://cyberelk.net/tim/2007/01/12/a-million-fedora-users-but-how-many-file-bugs/comment-page-1/#comment-10 tim Wed, 17 Jan 2007 13:20:07 +0000 http://cyberelk.net/tim/?p=22#comment-10 Yes, the average non-geek is not used to being asked to submit bug reports. I think this is a challenge for free software: traditionally free software users have been those very people who are keen to improve the software. They were grateful that it existed at all and wanted to help out. As free software gained popularity this type of user was always going to become exceptional rather than the norm, and I think that is happening. I hope there is not too much risk of getting "RTFM" as a response to a poor bug report, but I suppose different developers handle them their own ways. :-( The problem with a simple bug dumping app is "triage": there just aren't enough people who can do that job to go around as far as I can tell. No comment preview because I don't know which WordPress plug-in to use for it. :-) Yes, the average non-geek is not used to being asked to submit bug reports. I think this is a challenge for free software: traditionally free software users have been those very people who are keen to improve the software. They were grateful that it existed at all and wanted to help out. As free software gained popularity this type of user was always going to become exceptional rather than the norm, and I think that is happening.

I hope there is not too much risk of getting “RTFM” as a response to a poor bug report, but I suppose different developers handle them their own ways. :-(

The problem with a simple bug dumping app is “triage”: there just aren’t enough people who can do that job to go around as far as I can tell.

No comment preview because I don’t know which WordPress plug-in to use for it. :-)

]]> By: Tim Wegener http://cyberelk.net/tim/2007/01/12/a-million-fedora-users-but-how-many-file-bugs/comment-page-1/#comment-9 Tim Wegener Wed, 17 Jan 2007 12:49:58 +0000 http://cyberelk.net/tim/?p=22#comment-9 Some reasons why people don't submit bug reports: * average non-geek doesn't know what a 'bug report' is * it takes quite a lot of time to gather info and try out things in order to submit a decent bug report * need to make a login in bugzilla, which means yet another password to remember * risk being told to RTFM or chastised for poor bug report * low reward-to-effort ratio in many cases If a project/organisation is keen to receive bug reports then they really need to lower the bar, and put the burden on themselves rather than the user. Perhaps a simple bug dumping app would be helpful, called 'feedback' or 'complaints' or 'it's not working' or something obvious to non-geeks, The user would get a dialog with basically the pro forma for a new bugzilla bug. This would just dump the report via email or form for triaging at the project/organisation end. Perhaps this could be partially automated, e.g. dup detection. Anyway, this is not a complaint. I have been very impressed with the responsiveness to Fedora/Redhat bugs, especially from yourself! :-) BTW, why no comment preview? Some reasons why people don’t submit bug reports:
* average non-geek doesn’t know what a ‘bug report’ is
* it takes quite a lot of time to gather info and try out things in order to submit a decent bug report
* need to make a login in bugzilla, which means yet another password to remember
* risk being told to RTFM or chastised for poor bug report
* low reward-to-effort ratio in many cases

If a project/organisation is keen to receive bug reports then they really need to lower the bar, and put the burden on themselves rather than the user.

Perhaps a simple bug dumping app would be helpful, called ‘feedback’ or ‘complaints’ or ‘it’s not working’ or something obvious to non-geeks, The user would get a dialog with basically the pro forma for a new bugzilla bug. This would just dump the report via email or form for triaging at the project/organisation end. Perhaps this could be partially automated, e.g. dup detection.

Anyway, this is not a complaint. I have been very impressed with the responsiveness to Fedora/Redhat bugs, especially from yourself! :-)

BTW, why no comment preview?

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